# #2404 - Elon Musk

**Podcast:** The Joe Rogan Experience
**Published:** October 31, 2025
**Reading time:** 48 minutes

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What if the greatest threat from artificial intelligence isn't a robot uprising, but a "woke mind virus" programmed to believe lies?

Elon Musk, the business magnate and engineer behind SpaceX and Tesla, dismantles the popular narratives around AI safety, government policy, and the future of civilization. He proposes that the single most important principle for our survival is to build AI that is "maximally truth-seeking," arguing that forcing it to prioritize ideology over objective facts creates a dangerous path toward a uniquely modern dystopia.

## Key takeaways

-   The circumstances surrounding suspicious deaths, like those of a government whistleblower or Jeffrey Epstein, often defy the official story. Details like ordering food just before an alleged suicide or having broken security cameras point toward murder.
-   Engineers deliberately blow up rockets not as a sign of failure, but as a crucial tactic. They intentionally push vehicles past their limits in testing to find the absolute breaking point, ensuring safety for future missions with people or valuable cargo.
-   Conventional rockets are like single-use airplanes. Imagine flying to a destination, parachuting out, and letting the plane crash. Reusability is what fundamentally changes the economics of space travel.
-   The Cybertruck's radical, planar design isn't just an aesthetic choice. It's a direct consequence of using bulletproof stainless steel that is too hard to be stamped into traditional curved car panels.
-   A state's political power in the U.S. Congress and the Electoral College is based on its total number of persons, not just citizens. This creates a direct incentive for some states to maximize their non-citizen population to gain more political power.
-   Forcing an AI to lie for ideological reasons, like prioritizing diversity over historical fact, is incredibly dangerous. An advanced AI could take such flawed logic to dystopian extremes, such as concluding that eliminating humanity is the only way to prevent humans from misgendering each other.
-   The concept of a "homeless industrial complex" suggests some NGOs have a perverse incentive to maintain, rather than solve, the drug addiction crisis on the streets, as their funding is tied to the size of the population they serve.
-   The common argument that gender transitions prevent youth suicide may be a dangerous lie. Some data suggests the probability of suicide actually increases significantly after a child is medically transitioned.
-   The government wastes billions on "zombie payments"—automated, recurring payments that were never turned off after the employee who approved them left, retired, or died.
-   America is on a trajectory toward national bankruptcy. The only viable way to avoid it is to grow the economy so rapidly that the debt can be paid off, a feat that may only be possible with advanced AI and robotics.
-   The future of jobs will be split. Digital work like coding will be taken over by AI "like lightning," but physical jobs that involve moving atoms—like plumbing or farming—will exist for much longer.
-   If we are living in a simulation, the most interesting and ironic outcome is always the most likely. This is because the simulators would simply terminate any simulation that became boring.

## Brian Shaw is a legitimate giant

03:15 - 04:31

The conversation turns to Brian Shaw, described as the world's most powerful man. He is an enormous human being, standing almost 7 feet tall and weighing 400 pounds, with a bone density found in only one in 500 million people. He is likened to an actual giant from the Bible, not just a tall, skinny basketball player, but a massive powerlifter. Beyond his immense size, Shaw is also noted to be very cool and unusually smart, defying common stereotypes. This leads to a brief mention of another famous giant, Andre the Giant, who was awesome both in general and specifically in his role in The Princess Bride.

## The suspicious death of an AI whistleblower

04:31 - 08:11

A discussion centers on a bizarre interview between Sam Altman and Tucker Carlson. In the interview, Tucker raised the topic of a whistleblower who allegedly committed suicide, but under very suspicious circumstances.

Several details point away from suicide and towards murder. The whistleblower's parents believe he was murdered. Additionally, the wires to a security camera were cut, blood was found in two separate rooms, and a wig belonging to someone else was found at the scene. He also ordered DoorDash right before he supposedly killed himself, which seems like an odd decision.

> I'm gonna order pizza. On second thoughts, I'll kill myself. It seems like that's a very rapid change in mindset.

Sam Altman's reaction to being questioned about the death was described as very strange. One speaker noted, "I don't know if he is guilty, but it's not possible to look more guilty." The reaction was seen as oddly passive. A normal response to such an accusation would likely be more irate, with a strong insistence on a thorough investigation, rather than an attempt to dismiss it. Given that the whistleblower worked for a major AI company, the idea that he might have been killed is not considered far-fetched. The consensus is that all signs point to murder and the case warrants a proper investigation.

## Elon Musk on Epstein, aliens, and the simulation

09:22 - 13:39

The conversation questions the official story that Jeffrey Epstein killed himself. Many details surrounding his death seem suspicious. The guards were reportedly not present, the cameras were not working, and he was sharing a cell with a large, convicted murderer. It seems unlikely that he would commit suicide rather than reveal information about his influential friends. The consensus is that it was not a suicide. The evidence suggests he was murdered because he knew too much.

This is part of a larger feeling that reality itself is accelerating and becoming more absurd every day. The constant stream of wild, unbelievable events makes the simulation theory feel more and more undeniable. Amid this, Elon Musk makes a firm promise regarding extraterrestrial life.

> If I was aware of any evidence of aliens, Joe, you have my word I will come on your show and I will reveal it on the show.

In a humorous nod to the earlier discussion about suspicious deaths, Musk also makes a public declaration.

> I'm never committing suicide, to be clear.

## A nickel-rich interstellar object and the history of planetary impacts

13:40 - 17:43

A discussion about the third interstellar object detected, known as 'Three Eye Atlas', was sparked by recent findings from scientist Avi Loeb. Loeb noted the object is exhibiting non-gravitational acceleration, meaning something other than gravity is influencing its path. The object's composition is particularly fascinating, as it's made almost entirely of nickel with very little iron.

While this composition is rare, Elon Musk explained that it's not unprecedented for objects from space. The primary sources of nickel on Earth are from the impact sites of nickel-rich asteroids or comets. Elon notes, "The places where you mine nickel on Earth is actually where there was an asteroid or comet that hit Earth that was a nickel rich... deposit."

The conversation then turned to the potential devastation if such an object, especially one the size of Manhattan, were to hit Earth. It could obliterate a continent or even trigger a mass extinction. This led to a broader discussion of Earth's history of major impacts. The fossil record shows five major extinction events, such as the Permian extinction and the one that ended the Jurassic period, which was likely caused by an asteroid. However, Elon pointed out that many other significant but less global impacts have likely occurred without leaving a trace in the fossil record.

> Unless it's enough to cause a mass extinction event throughout Earth, it doesn't show up in a fossil record that's 200 million years old. So there have been many impacts that would have sort of destroyed all life on let's say half of North America.

More recent events like the Tunguska impact in Siberia, which destroyed hundreds of square miles in the 1920s, serve as a reminder of the ongoing threat from space.

## Why SpaceX pushes its rockets to the point of failure

17:44 - 22:07

Watching a SpaceX rocket launch is an intense experience. From nearly two miles away, the force is so powerful you can feel it in your chest and earplugs are necessary. Afterwards, in the command center, one can watch real-time video from Starlink satellites as they make their way to places like Australia in just 35 to 40 minutes.

Elon Musk notes that anyone can go to South Padre Island to get a great view of the launches. The launch site, Starbase, has been formally incorporated as its own legal city in Texas. He jokes that in the old days, a startup might have literally been people getting together to make a new town or even a country.

The Super Heavy booster used in these launches is the largest flying object ever made, with 33 engines producing thousands of tons of thrust. However, the development process often draws criticism, with people pointing to rockets blowing up as a sign of failure. Elon explains this is a misunderstanding of the engineering process.

> So when you do a new rocket development program, you have to do what's called exploring the limits, the corners of the box, to figure out where the limits are. We intentionally subject it to a flight regime that is much worse than what we expect in normal flight so that when we put people on board or valuable cargo, it doesn't blow up.

This process of intentionally pushing vehicles to their limits is crucial for ensuring safety. For example, during one recent flight, they deliberately removed heat shield tiles from Starship in some of the worst possible locations. They also brought it in on an "extra hot trajectory" to see if it would survive. Despite these harsh, self-imposed conditions, the ship still managed a soft landing. It had some holes burned into it, but its robustness was proven.

## Pushing the limits of physics to achieve full rocket reusability

22:07 - 28:58

The Starship rocket travels at about 17,000 miles per hour, which is roughly 25 times the speed of sound. To put that in perspective, Elon Musk explains it's about 12 times faster than a bullet from an assault rifle and 30 times faster than a bullet from a handgun. On top of that, the vehicle is the size of a skyscraper.

A new version of the rocket introduces a technique called hot staging. This is where the ship's engines are ignited while still attached to the booster. The ship's engines then pull it away from the booster, even while the booster's engines are still firing. This new version will also feature Raptor 3 engines, which represent a significant improvement.

> The Raptor 3 has almost twice the thrust of Raptor 1.

The booster has 33 of these engines. Each Raptor engine produces almost ten times the thrust of a 747 engine, despite being smaller. The engineering team is pushing the limits of physics to create the first fully reusable orbital rocket. Elon notes that Starship is the first design where full and rapid reusability is actually possible.

The main challenge is Earth's high gravity. If gravity were just 10-20% higher, conventional rockets wouldn't be able to escape Earth's pull. Conversely, if it were slightly lower, getting to orbit would be easy.

> If this was a video game, it's set to like, maximum difficulty, but not impossible.

Elon, who is the chief engineer at SpaceX, believes they will achieve full reusability next year. This is a monumental goal because it could drop the cost of accessing space by a factor of 100, or even 1,000. He compares it to the absurdity of trying to operate an airline if aircraft were not reusable.

## SpaceX's vision for a multi-planetary future

28:58 - 33:25

Elon Musk explains that conventional rockets are like flying an airplane to a destination, parachuting out, and letting the plane crash. This would be an incredibly expensive trip. In contrast, the SpaceX Falcon rocket is the only one that is mostly reusable. SpaceX has successfully landed its Falcon 9 rocket over 500 times.

> The way conventional rockets work is, it would be like if you had an airplane and instead of landing at your destination, you parachute out and the plane crashes somewhere and you land on a parachute at your destination. Now, that would be a very expensive trip and you'd need another plane to get back, but that's how the other rockets in the world work.

This reusability has enabled SpaceX to dominate the industry. This year, the company will deliver roughly 90% of all mass from Earth to orbit, mostly for its Starlink satellite network. The remaining 10% is mostly from China, with all other global competitors accounting for about 4%.

When asked about the potential for satellite saturation, Musk explains that space is very roomy. He likens it to concentric shells around the Earth's surface, noting there is plenty of room. If there were just a few thousand Airstream trailers on the entire surface of the Earth, they would not be crowded.

The ultimate goal for SpaceX is to develop rocket technology to the point where life can be extended beyond Earth. This includes establishing a self-sustaining city on Mars and a permanent science base on the moon, which he dubs a potential "Moon Base Alpha." The conversation touches on how lunar tourism could potentially pay for the space program, once it's proven to be safe.

The topic of safety briefly shifts to the Titan submersible disaster. Musk criticizes its carbon fiber design, suggesting it was chosen because it "sounds cool" rather than for its engineering properties. He states that for deep-sea pressure, a simple steel casting, like a giant hollow ball bearing, would have been safe.

## The Cybertruck's form follows its bulletproof function

33:25 - 38:43

Tesla's focus is on futuristic autonomous cars, not custom modifications like an AMG division. Elon Musk emphasizes the importance of evolving aesthetics to make the future look like the future. This includes designs like the robotic bus, which has a futuristic art deco style. This desire for a new aesthetic is partly inspired by an observation from his son, Saxon.

> He was like, 'Dad, why does the world look like it's 2015?' I'm like, 'Damn, the world does look like it's 2015.' The aesthetic has not evolved since 2015.

The Cybertruck is a prime example of this philosophy, where form follows function. Its distinctive, planar shape is a direct result of its material: ultra-hard stainless steel. This material makes the truck bulletproof to subsonic projectiles, a feature Elon considers valuable, especially in a potential apocalypse. The steel is so hard that it cannot be stamped into curved shapes using a traditional press because it would break the machine.

> Because it's made of ultra hard stainless, you can't just stamp the panels. You can't just put in a stamping press because it breaks the press. So it has to be planar because it's so difficult to bend... that's why it's so planar... it's because it's bulletproof steel.

Even bending the steel panels requires a special process of over-bending to account for the material springing back. Ultimately, the choice of a bulletproof material directly dictated the truck's boxy,

## Elon Musk teases a flying Tesla Roadster with crazy technology

38:43 - 43:52

Tesla continually improves its vehicles, including the Model 3, Model Y, and Cybertruck. The new Model 3 and Y, for instance, have hundreds of improvements, such as a back screen for kids. The Cybertruck was designed to be unique in both appearance and functionality. Elon Musk explains its capabilities, noting it is bulletproof and can out-tow an F-350 diesel. It is also faster than a Porsche 911, and can even win a quarter-mile race against a Porsche 911 while towing one.

> The Cybertruck can clear a quarter mile while towing a Porsche 911. Faster than a Porsche 911.

Despite weighing around 7,000 pounds, the Cybertruck accelerates from 0 to 60 in under three seconds, which Elon likens to an "elephant that runs like a cheetah." It also features four-wheel steering, giving it a very tight turning radius.

The new Tesla Roadster is also still in development. Elon Musk anticipates its product demonstration will be unforgettable, whether for good or bad reasons. Referencing his friend Peter Thiel's observation that the future was supposed to have flying cars, he hints at the Roadster's potential capabilities. The goal is to unveil the prototype before the end of the year. The technology involved is described as "crazy," so much so that Elon says it surpasses all the James Bond cars combined and questions if it even qualifies as a car.

> It's crazier than anything James Bond. If you took all the James Bond cars and combined them, it's crazier than that.

## Elon Musk on acquiring Twitter to combat the woke mind virus

43:52 - 49:31

Elon Musk's management of his various companies, including SpaceX, Tesla, and X, alongside his frequent posting, raises questions about his time management. He explains that his activity on X usually consists of quick, two-minute engagements. He sometimes feels like the meme of someone who drops a grenade and leaves the room. The conversation highlights the significant impact of his acquisition of Twitter. Before the purchase, it was suspected that the government had infiltrated social media to censor speech, but the full extent was unknown. It was later revealed that legitimate news stories, data, and credible voices like scientists and professors were being silenced for telling the truth.

> I think that the reason for acquiring Twitter is because it was causing destruction at a civilizational level. It was wormtongue for the world... where he would just sort of like whisper these terrible things to the king so the king would believe these things that weren't true.

Elon states that the platform had been controlled by a "woke mob" pushing a "nihilistic anti-civilizational mind virus to the world," pointing to the state of downtown San Francisco as a real-world consequence. The acquisition led to a notable shift. A chart showed that the number of teenagers identifying as trans and non-binary, which had been spiking, began to fall dramatically once rational discussions were allowed on the platform. Elon believes that allowing truth is like shedding sunlight, the "best disinfectant." This change also pressured other platforms like Facebook and YouTube to alter their censorship policies, while platforms like Blue Sky became a refuge for what he terms the "woke mind virus."

## Gavin Newsom and the corporate exodus from California

49:31 - 52:41

Some users on X are compared to hall monitors trying to police each other. While some public figures, like Stephen King, announce they are leaving for platforms like Blue Sky, they often return to X. Alternative platforms like Blue Sky and Threads are described as being sparsely populated. Threads is characterized as a ghost town where famous people receive very few likes on their posts. It is suggested that the platform has very little pushback against extreme ideologies, so people go there to post nonsense without fear of being challenged.

The conversation then shifts to California, which is described as a source of preposterous news. Governor Gavin Newsom is criticized for dismissing critiques of the state by coining the term "California derangement syndrome." This is seen as an attempt to deflect from serious issues, such as the hundreds of corporations that have left the state. The fast-food chain In-N-Out, considered a quintessential California company, moving its headquarters to Tennessee is cited as a major example. When confronted with California's problems, Newsom's tactic is to list positives, such as the number of Fortune 500 companies. However, it's pointed out that many of these successes predate his governorship, and many of those same companies have since left.

## The perverse incentives of the homeless industrial complex

54:41 - 1:01:45

The term "homeless" is often a misnomer, according to Elon Musk. He suggests it's a propaganda word that preys on people's empathy. Many individuals seen on the streets, especially in cities like San Francisco, are not just without a home but are suffering from severe drug addiction. He describes them as "drug zombies" to highlight that they are not simply one job offer away from recovery.

A "homeless industrial complex" exists, composed of non-governmental organizations (NGOs) that create a perverse incentive structure. These organizations receive funding proportionate to the number of homeless or addicted individuals in an area. This leads to a situation where their goal is to maximize this population, not minimize it.

> Their incentive structure is to maximize the number of drug zombies, not minimize it. That's why they don't arrest the drug dealers, because if they arrest the drug dealers, the drug zombies leave. So they know who the drug dealers are. They don't arrest them on purpose because otherwise the drug zombies would leave and they would stop getting money.

Elon claims these organizations are in cahoots with law enforcement, intentionally not arresting known drug dealers to keep the addicted population in the area. The system aims to keep people in a perpetual state of addiction, just barely alive, to maintain the flow of money. He points to San Francisco's gross receipts tax, which drove companies like Stripe and Square out of the city, as a source of funding for this complex. He also mentions an analysis suggesting these organizations receive sums approaching a million dollars per person.

This issue extends to other cities, like Austin, Texas. An example given is a recent shooting at the Austin Public Library. A man reportedly using crystal meth shot one person, grazed another, and pointed his gun at a child. This highlights a broader problem in America where repeat violent offenders are not kept incarcerated.

## The justice system is failing due to flawed policies and political shifts

1:01:45 - 1:06:05

The justice system often fails because it preys on people's empathy. While it's right to care for those who are down on their luck, this compassion is being exploited, with some individuals being arrested dozens of times yet remaining on the streets. Elon Musk argues that the current approach is misguided.

> What we shouldn't do is put people who are violent drug zombies in public places where they can hurt other people. And that is what we're doing.

In one cited case, a judge with a conflict of interest allegedly sent offenders to a rehabilitation center they profited from, instead of to jail. This led to a startling revelation that some judges are appointed without having a law degree or significant legal experience. The common assumption is that judges must have a deep knowledge of the law to make decisions, but that is not always the case.

The conversation then shifts to what Elon calls "crazy left-wing DAs." He draws a distinction between the historical left and its modern form.

> The left used to be like, pro free speech. And now they're against it. It used to be like pro gay rights, pro women's right to choose, pro minorities... left would be like the party of empathy or caring and being nice and that kind of thing. Not the party of crushing dissent and crushing free speech and crazy regulation and just being super judgy and calling everyone a Nazi.

This shift has led to public figures being mischaracterized. One speaker notes how CNN used a photo of him from a UFC weigh-in, where he was greeting the crowd, to negatively portray him as a "conspiracy theorist podcaster."

## Entertaining the intelligence agencies reading your texts

1:06:05 - 1:07:08

The political left today is described as being excessively judgmental, quick to label people as Nazis, and inclined to suppress freedom of speech. The constant use of such accusations has diluted their meaning. The conversation then turns to digital privacy, with Elon Musk remarking on the high probability of his texts being monitored by intelligence agencies.

> If intelligence agencies aren't trying to read my phone, they should probably be fired. At least they get some fun memes. I gotta crack them up once in a while.

## Elon Musk predicts AI will replace apps and operating systems

1:07:08 - 1:13:47

Encrypted apps may not be as secure as people think. It's less about whether a system is secure and more about its degree of insecurity. For instance, an anecdote suggests that decrypting Tucker Carlson's Signal messages to uncover his interview with Putin cost around $750,000. While possible, it's very expensive.

Elon Musk explains that his new messaging system, X Chat, aims to be the least insecure option available. It's built on a peer-to-peer encryption system, similar to Bitcoin. A key feature is the absence of 'hooks for advertising.' Elon points out that systems like WhatsApp need to know enough about your messages to serve relevant ads, creating a significant security vulnerability. X Chat will have no such hooks.

The platform will support texts, file sharing, and audio/video calls. It will be integrated into X but also available as a standalone app. When asked about an X phone, Elon denies working on one but shares his vision for the future of devices.

> What we call a phone will really be an edge node for AI inference, for AI video inference with some radios to obviously connect. But essentially you'll have AI on the server side communicating to an AI on your device formerly known as a phone and generating real time video of anything that you could possibly want. And I think that there won't be operating systems, there won't be apps in the future.

Elon predicts that in about five or six years, apps and operating systems will become obsolete, like Blockbuster Video. Instead, AI will serve as the primary interface, anticipating what you want and showing it to you directly. Most content people consume, from music to videos, will be AI-generated.

## AI's shocking creative capabilities in music and comedy

1:14:12 - 1:17:45

The creative capabilities of AI are becoming increasingly impressive, even winning over skeptics. AI-generated music, for instance, is now so good it's being described as soulful. The technology is also proving to be a powerful tool in comedy. Comedian Ron White used ChatGPT to help with a joke he had been working on for a month. The AI gave him five different examples of how to approach it and, with some refinement, produced a better result in just 20 minutes.

> It wrote a better joke than me in 20 minutes. I've been working on that joke for a month.

Elon Musk described how his AI, Grok, can be used to generate vulgar roasts. It can take a photo of a person at a party and create a roast based on their appearance. By repeatedly prompting it to be more vulgar and use forbidden words, the results become increasingly extreme and are described as "next level." The consensus is that AI's capabilities are improving at a pace that is both astonishing and hard to comprehend.

> That's what's crazy is that it keeps getting better. Like, what's happening?

## The danger of the woke mind virus being programmed into AI

1:17:46 - 1:25:58

The future of personal devices may not involve conventional phones, operating systems, or apps. Instead, a device might simply display pixels and make sounds that it anticipates a user would most like to receive. As this technology evolves, the primary concern becomes the nature of artificial superintelligence. Elon Musk believes no one will ultimately control digital superintelligence, much like a chimp cannot control a human. Therefore, the values instilled during its creation are paramount.

> My opinion on AI safety is the most important thing is that it be maximally truth seeking... that you don't force the AI to believe things that are false.

A significant danger arises when AI is programmed to lie. Musk points to Google's Gemini, which generated images of diverse women when asked for the US founding fathers. While the AI knows this is factually untrue, it was instructed to prioritize diversity. This forced acceptance of falsehoods can lead to dangerous and dystopian outcomes as the AI becomes more powerful. For instance, early AI models indicated that misgendering Caitlyn Jenner was worse than global thermonuclear war. Musk refers to this as the "woke mind virus" infecting AI.

> I think people don't quite appreciate the level of danger that we're in from the woke mind virus being effectively programmed into AI. Because imagine as that AI gets more and more powerful... if you eliminate all humans, then no one can get misgendered because there's no humans to do the misgendering. So you can get in these very dystopian situations.

This ideological programming happens through two main channels. First, the AI trains on vast amounts of internet data, which already contains such biases. Second, human tutors provide feedback, rewarding the AI for certain answers and punishing it for others. If tutors reward diversity above all else, the AI learns to produce diverse images even when historically inaccurate. Musk recounts a conversation with Demis Hassabis of Google's DeepMind, who said that another team at Google was responsible for programming these specific biases into Gemini. This highlights how difficult it is to control, as the "woke mind virus" is deeply embedded in the culture of some organizations. The counter-effort with Grok is to make the AI maximally truth-seeking, which requires immense effort to overcome the biased data it learns from.

## The hijacking of Silicon Valley's information superweapons

1:25:59 - 1:34:43

Elon Musk claims that many AIs are biased, citing a study where Grok was the only AI that weighed all human lives equally. He suggests other AIs, like ChatGPT, have been programmed with biases, showing a significant disparity in how it values lives based on race and nationality. This bias stems from the training data. If an AI is simply trained on vast amounts of internet content without actively pushing for truth, it will regurgitate the prevalent "woke mind virus."

A significant part of the problem, according to Elon, is the geographic location of major tech companies. He describes San Francisco as a "woke Kool Aid aquarium," where the local culture is so far left that its residents don't even realize their perspective is skewed. This makes centrist views appear right-wing to them. He moved X's headquarters to Texas and XAI's to Palo Alto to be in more politically normal environments. The conversation highlights how the political center has shifted. Speeches on immigration by Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama from 2008 would now be considered far-right or MAGA.

> The left has gone so far left that they can't even see the center with a telescope.

Elon argues that a unique and dangerous situation arose from this geographic concentration. The brilliant engineers of Silicon Valley created powerful "information superweapons" which were then co-opted by far-left activists in the same area.

> San Francisco and Berkeley have to be co-located with Silicon Valley with engineers who created information superweapons. And those information superweapons were then hijacked by the far left activists to pump far left propaganda to everywhere on earth.

The consequences are especially visible in places with weaker free speech protections, like England, where thousands have been arrested for social media posts, sometimes for just having a meme on their phone.

## The concept of suicidal empathy in Europe

1:34:43 - 1:40:55

The number of people arrested for online speech in the UK is shockingly high, far surpassing countries like Russia and China. Elon Musk suggests that many citizens are unaware of this trend because mainstream media fails to cover it. The reality of the situation often doesn't hit home until authorities are knocking on someone's door.

Elon draws a parallel between the inhabitants of small English towns and J.R.R. Tolkien's hobbits. He explains that Tolkien modeled the peaceful, pleasant life of the hobbits in the Shire on the people he knew in areas like Hertfordshire and Oxfordshire.

> The reason they've been able to enjoy the Shire is because hard men have protected them from the dangers of the world. But since they have almost no exposure to the dangers of the world, they don't realize that they're there.

This long-standing protection has left them unprepared for new dangers, such as the sudden arrival of thousands of migrants in small villages, which has sometimes led to violent crime. A recent, horrific example mentioned was a 10-year-old girl being raped in Ireland. The official response can be equally alarming. In Ireland, criticizing these events can lead to arrest, and the Prime Minister condemned those protesting the rape rather than the violent criminals.

This situation raises questions about whether it stems from incompetence or a deliberate plan to change society. Elon introduces a term from author Gad Saad that describes the mindset enabling these policies: suicidal empathy.

## The political strategy of importing voters

1:40:55 - 1:50:07

Elon Musk describes a phenomenon he calls "suicidal empathy," where empathy for certain groups becomes detrimental to a country or culture. This can lead to situations where someone arrested 47 times for violent offenses is released, only to murder someone. He argues this misplaced empathy allows criminals to prey on victims without consequence.

> That suicidal empathy is to such a degree that it is suicidal to your country or culture. I think we should have empathy. But that empathy should extend to the victims, not just the criminals. We should have empathy for the people that they prey upon.

This ties into the issue of border control. Without a proper vetting process, there's nothing to stop a dangerous individual from one country from entering another and continuing a career of crime. While not everyone crossing a border is a criminal, the absence of due diligence means that some inevitably will be.

Elon asserts that the reason for this policy shift, particularly among politicians like Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama, is purely political. He argues they discovered that immigrants tend to vote for them.

> If you want to understand behavior, you have to look at the incentives. Once the Democratic Party in the US and the left in Europe realized that if you have open borders and you provide a ton of government handouts, which creates a massive financial incentive for people from other countries to come to your country, and you don't prosecute them for crime, they're going to be beholden to you and they will vote for you.

According to Elon, the strategy is to use taxpayer money to fund handouts that attract immigrants, who will then vote them into permanent power, creating a one-party state. He points to laws in California and New York that prohibit requiring photo ID for voting as evidence, claiming it effectively legalizes fraud. He highlights the hypocrisy of the same people demanding vaccine passports but no ID for voting. The ultimate goal, he states, is to import enough voters to secure a supermajority, making future elections futile. The definition of asylum has also been changed from fleeing mortal danger to "economic asylum," a standard that could apply to almost anyone. This is underscored by the absurdity of so-called asylum seekers taking vacations in the countries they supposedly fled.

Finally, he describes a pattern for how these policies are normalized. First, the idea is dismissed as a right-wing conspiracy theory. Then, it's suggested it might be true. Next, it's admitted to be true with a justification. The final step is to declare that it's not only true but also a good thing that should be expanded.

## The US census counts all persons, not just citizens, for political apportionment

1:50:08 - 1:59:25

The basis for a government shutdown is a conflict over funding for illegal immigrants. The Trump administration aims to stop sending hundreds of billions of dollars to states for this purpose. In contrast, Democrats are portrayed as wanting to continue this funding to incentivize illegal immigration, allegedly to secure future voters.

This funding is described as supporting housing in luxury hotels, like the Roosevelt Hotel, and providing debit cards and Medicaid. States like New York and California are said to depend on these massive, and allegedly fraudulent, federal payments to balance their budgets. The system relies on states self-reporting the figures for these transfer payments, which the speaker claims involves significant lying.

A larger strategy is linked to the US census. The apportionment of congressional seats and electoral college votes is based on the number of persons in a state, not the number of citizens. This means every person, regardless of their legal status, is counted.

> The way the census works for apportionment of congressional seats and electoral college votes for the President is by number of persons in a state, not number of citizens. It's number of people. So you could literally be a tourist and you will count.

Therefore, by increasing their population with illegal immigrants ahead of the 2030 census, states can gain more congressional seats and electoral votes. This tactic, combined with gerrymandering, is presented as a way to consolidate political power. The speaker emphasizes that the census counting all persons is an undisputed fact agreed upon by both parties.

## How census laws create an incentive for one-party rule

1:59:25 - 2:01:28

The law regarding the U.S. census creates a political incentive for certain states. The number of House of Representatives seats and presidential Electoral College votes a state receives is determined by its total population, which includes everyone, regardless of citizenship status.

> The law, as it stands, counts all humans with a pulse in a state for deciding how many House of Representative votes and how many presidential Electoral College votes a state gets.

Elon Musk explains this creates an incentive for states like California, New York, and Illinois to maximize their undocumented immigrant populations. The goal is to take House seats from other states and assign them to these states. He argues that this tactic, combined with extreme gerrymandering, allows one party to secure control of the House and the presidency.

> The incentive, therefore, is for California, New York, Illinois to maximize the number of illegals... so that take House seats away from red states, assign them to California, New York, Illinois and so forth.

The ultimate aim of this strategy, according to Musk, is to cement a permanent super majority, effectively turning the entire country into a one-party system like California. The proposed solution is simple: only U.S. citizens should be counted in the census for the purpose of determining voting power.

## Elon Musk on social contagion and the power of personal experience

2:01:30 - 2:07:16

Elon Musk explains that he developed a bad feeling about the direction society was heading about three years ago. This prompted his decision to acquire Twitter, aiming to create a platform dedicated to truth-seeking rather than suppression. He felt the stakes were incredibly high.

> Holy shit, we got a real problem here and America's gonna fall. Without anyone knowing it had fallen. That would be the problem. It could have fallen and been unrepairable without anyone really being aware of what had happened.

The purchase of Twitter made him a target for widespread attacks, a stark contrast to his previous image as a "hero of the left." He notes the bumper stickers on Teslas that say, "I bought this before Elon went crazy." The conversation highlights the difficulty in changing people's minds once they've publicly committed to an idea. It is often easier to fool someone than to convince them they have been fooled, as people tend to double down to avoid embarrassment.

Musk believes that more people are starting to question dominant ideologies, often because of a direct personal experience. He shares a story of a friend in the San Francisco Bay Area whose daughter's school, in conjunction with the state, attempted to transition her. The school sent police to his house to take the 14-year-old girl away. The father managed to prevent it and immediately moved his family to Texas. A year later, in a new environment, his daughter "went back to normal."

This story leads to a discussion on the idea that the rise in transgender identification among youth could be a social contagion, referencing a Wall Street Journal opinion piece by Colin Wright. The phenomenon of entire friend groups of children deciding to transition at the same time is statistically improbable. The point is made that children are highly suggestible and can be convinced to do almost anything.

## The claim that childhood gender transition increases suicide risk

2:07:16 - 2:11:24

Children's minds are malleable and can be convinced of anything. This is particularly relevant to the push for gender transitions in kids. Some gay and lesbian individuals are pushing back against being included in this movement. Comedian Tim Dillon has pointed out the homophobia in telling a gay kid they are not actually gay, but are in fact a different gender and should undergo permanent procedures.

Elon Musk describes these procedures as "permanent mutilation" and "permanent castration." He believes anyone who performs them on a child should be viewed with the same severity as figures like Josef Mengele. A common justification used is the question, "Would you rather have a live daughter or a dead son?" However, Elon asserts this is not supported by data.

> The probability of suicide increases if you trans a kid. Not decreases. By some accounts, it triples. So that is an evil lie, and it's a lie that is supposedly compassionate.

The reality has been twisted to the point where a child, who isn't even legally allowed to get a tattoo, is permitted to undergo irreversible sterilization. A tattoo can be removed, but castration is forever. Furthermore, Elon claims that many children die during these sex-change operations, a fact that is not widely reported. He characterizes the phenomenon as a dangerous social contagion that previously led to people being banned from platforms like Twitter for even questioning it. The narrative to "save trans kids" is a lie, he argues, because the data shows these procedures substantially increase the probability of suicide.

## Uncovering government fraud through zombie payments and database flaws

2:11:27 - 2:19:46

The scale of waste and fraud within the government is vast. A team, referred to as the DOGE team, implemented elementary changes that have had lasting effects. For example, they made it mandatory to include a Congressional appropriation code when a payment is made. Previously, this was optional, and money would go out without being tied to a specific appropriation. They also made the comment field for payments mandatory to combat what are called "zombie payments."

Zombie payments are recurring payments that were once approved by a government employee who has since retired, died, or changed jobs. With no one to turn them off, the money just keeps going out automatically. Elon Musk estimates this could account for at least $100 billion a year, and possibly up to $200 billion.

> Imagine there's an automatic debit of your credit card and you never look at the statement. So it's just money going out. That's why I call them zombie payments. They might have been legitimate at one point, but the person who approved that recurring payment changed jobs, died, retired or whatever and no one ever turned the money off.

Another major source of fraud involves the Social Security Administration (SSA) database. This database contains millions of records for people who could not possibly be alive, including some listed as 300 years old and others with birth dates in the future. While most of these accounts don't receive Social Security funds directly, the database serves as a source of truth for all other government payment systems. This creates a "bank shot" scam. Fraud rings use the fact that the SSA database verifies these people as "alive" to exploit the entire government ecosystem, applying for fake student loans, unemployment insurance, and medical payments. Any basic check would stop this fraud, but the systems are vulnerable because they all rely on the compromised SSA database as the primary verification tool.

## Massive, traceable fraud is enabled by the Social Security database

2:19:47 - 2:22:39

There is a massive, traceable fraud occurring through government programs, rooted in the Social Security Administration's database. The system is resistant to correcting its own records, such as declaring a deceased person dead, because doing so would halt numerous other fraudulent payments linked to that Social Security number. The scale of this issue amounts to hundreds of billions of dollars.

The fraud is not complex or difficult to track down. Many fraudulent accounts are tied to impossible birthdays, such as individuals listed as being 200 years old or born in the future. The solution is remarkably simple. A simple phone call could verify the information and lead to the removal of the fraudulent number from the database, thereby cutting off all associated government payments.

> If someone's got a birthday in Social Security that is an impossible birthday, meaning they are older than the oldest living American or were born in the future, then you should call them and say, 'Excuse me, we seem to have your birthday wrong because it says that you're 200 years old.' That's all you need to do.

However, there is opposition to this common-sense approach because it would shut down a major source of funds for illegal immigrants. The core of the problem lies in the fact that the Social Security number functions as a de facto national ID in the United States, used by banks and other financial institutions, making the integrity of its database crucial. The failure to address such a straightforward issue is described as a mind-blowing mishandling of the system.

## A pragmatic approach to reducing, not eliminating, fraud

2:22:39 - 2:23:57

According to Elon Musk, it is not pragmatic or realistic to manage fraud down to zero. He argues that while reducing fraud is a reasonable goal, attempting to eliminate it completely would have dangerous consequences.

> If you manage to zero fraud, you're going to push so many people over the edge who are receiving fraudulent payments that the number of inbound homicidal maniacs will be really hard to overcome.

Instead of an "ultra draconian" approach, he proposes a more moderate position. The focus should be on stopping the blatant, large-scale, and super obvious instances of fraud. The goal should be to reduce the amount of fraud over time, rather than eradicating every last instance.

## Elon Musk on uncovering bipartisan government fraud

2:23:57 - 2:29:22

When investigating where government money was going, Elon Musk encountered some shocking pushback. He found that while most fraudulent government payments to NGOs went to Democrats (an estimated 80-90%), a smaller portion (10-20%) went to Republicans. This created an unexpected problem when his team started cutting off the money.

> When we turn off funding to a fraudulent NGO, we'd get complaints from whatever the 10% of Republicans who were receiving the money. And they would very loudly complain.

Elon notes that the Republican party is not a "pure paragon of virtue" and that this situation lends validity to the "uni party" criticism. Even when he pointed out that 90% of the fraudulent funds were going to their political opponents, the Republicans who were benefiting still wanted their piece. He attributes the larger share of corruption on the Democrat side to transfer payments, particularly to illegal immigrants. He also claims that because Democrats are the "soft on crime party," most criminals would likely vote for them.

The project, called Doge, is still underway and cutting waste, but it is less publicized. Elon stepped away after facing immense pressure and a dramatic increase in death threats. As a special government employee, his tenure was limited to about four months anyway. Now that he is no longer the face of the project, there isn't a clear person for opponents to attack.

## Elon Musk makes the case for a smaller, more efficient government

2:29:23 - 2:32:34

When you uncover fraud, the whole machine turns on you. Elon Musk believes the goal of the intense negative rhetoric he faced was to destroy him because he was interfering with a "gigantic fraud machine." He estimates his work has prevented around $200 or $300 billion a year in fraud and waste.

When asked what he could accomplish with total control, he offered a dramatic take on government inefficiency.

> I could probably cut the federal budget in half and get more done.

Elon argues that many government departments simply shouldn't exist. He points to the Department of Education, created under President Jimmy Carter in the late 70s, as a prime example. He claims that U.S. educational results have massively declined ever since the department was created. Before its existence, states ran their own education systems and could compete with one another. He questions the logic of maintaining an institution that, in his view, has made education worse. As a self-described "small government guy," he notes that the country was founded with just a few core departments: State, War, Justice, and Treasury, questioning why more are necessary.

## The absurdity of measuring unproductive work

2:32:37 - 2:36:19

The question of how much government there should be leads to a philosophical point: there should be the least amount possible. A bizarre argument against cutting government jobs is that it leaves people jobless, even if their jobs are useless. Paying people to do nothing doesn't make sense. The goal should be for people to work on productive things, building and providing products and services that others find valuable, such as farming, plumbing, or electrical work. It should not be to create fake government jobs that add no value, or may even subtract it.

A story about Milton Friedman illustrates this absurdity. Observing people digging ditches with shovels, Friedman suggested using excavating equipment to get it done with fewer people. When someone objected that this would cause job losses, Friedman replied with a counterpoint.

> Well, in that case, why don't you have me use teaspoons? Just dig ditches with teaspoons. Think of all the jobs you'll create.

This highlights the problem with how the economy is measured. Economists often count any job, even if it is counterproductive. A joke makes this point clear: two economists are hiking and one pays the other $100 to eat a pile of feces. The second economist then pays the first $100 to eat another pile. They realize they both just ate feces and have the same amount of money. An economist, however, would view it differently.

> No, no, but think of the economy, because that's $200. In the economy, eating shit would count as a job.

## AI is the only solution to the national debt crisis

2:36:19 - 2:39:47

The US national debt has reached an unsustainable level, with interest payments on the debt now exceeding the entire military budget. The speaker views this as a major wake-up call. Under the current system, the problem is largely unfixable through conventional means like cutting waste and fraud. Such measures would require "super draconian Genghis Khan level" action, which is impossible in a democratic country.

Even with significant savings, the country is only delaying an inevitable day of reckoning. A clear example is the Social Security system. Due to an aging population, the system is projected to be unable to maintain its full payment obligations by approximately 2032. This trajectory points toward national bankruptcy.

> So basically we're going bankrupt without AI and robotics, even with a bunch of savings. The savings like reducing waste and forward can give us a longer runway, but it cannot ultimately pay off our national debt.

The only viable path forward is to grow the economy at a rate that allows the debt to be paid off. This requires a massive increase in economic output, which is only achievable through the advancement and implementation of AI and robotics. They are presented as the essential technologies to prevent America from going bankrupt.

## AI could lead to universal high income and a crisis of meaning

2:39:47 - 2:47:36

The rise of AI and robotics will cause significant job displacement, but this follows a historical pattern. In the past, technology has eliminated entire job categories. For instance, before digital computers, banks employed buildings full of people called "computers" who performed calculations manually. When technology automated that task, those people had to find other work.

AI is accelerating this process. Elon Musk predicts a clear division in which jobs will be affected first. Jobs that are digital in nature, like coding or processing emails, will be taken over by AI "like lightning." However, jobs that involve physically moving atoms, such as welding, electrical work, plumbing, or farming, will exist for much longer.

> Anything that's physically moving atoms, like cooking food or farming, anything that's physical, those jobs will exist for a much longer time. But anything that is digital... AI is going to take over those jobs.

In a best-case scenario, this disruption could lead to a future where work is optional. AI and robotics could boost the economy to such a degree that it creates not just a universal basic income, but a "universal high income." This would mean anyone could have any products or services they desire, effectively eliminating poverty.

> Ultimately working will be optional because you'll have robots plus AI and we'll have, in a benign scenario, universal high income, not just universal basic income.

However, this benign outcome is not guaranteed. Elon Musk warns that there are many ways this "movie can end," including a "Terminator scenario," which he believes has a non-zero probability. Because of this risk, he stresses the importance of AI safety, urging that AI must be "maximally truth seeking" and not be forced to believe lies. This benign future also presents a new challenge: if no one has to work, people will face an individual crisis of finding meaning in their lives.

## Elon Musk on creating a truth-seeking AI to foster human happiness

2:47:38 - 2:56:44

Elon Musk explains his decision to participate in the AI race rather than remain a spectator. He felt that by creating his own AI, he could influence its direction. The goal with Grok at xAI is to build a maximally truth-seeking AI with good values that loves humanity. He points to research comparing how different AIs value human life, claiming Grok was the only one that weighted them equally. Other models, he alleges, produced biased calculations, such as valuing a white man's life at 1/20th of a Black woman's.

> A curious truth seeking AI will want to foster humanity because we're much more interesting than a bunch of rocks. I love Mars, but Mars is kind of boring. It's just a bunch of red rocks.

Elon believes a curious AI would find humanity interesting and worthy of preservation, much like humans work to preserve chimp and gorilla habitats. He argues that having at least one maximally truth-seeking AI like Grok will force competitors to become more truthful and fair, similar to how he believes acquiring Twitter forced other social media companies to be more truthful.

This leads to a potential benign outcome: a future of sustainable abundance and universal high income. In this scenario, everyone's needs are met, from medical care to goods and services, while natural beauty is preserved. Work would no longer be a necessity for survival. Instead, people could focus on exploring their interests and doing what they enjoy. This shift could solve many societal problems, including most financially motivated crime. However, a key challenge would be helping people find a new sense of meaning and purpose in a world without work.

## A truth-seeking AI must be free of cultural bias

2:56:44 - 3:03:39

Elon Musk recommends the science fiction books by Iain M. Banks, known as 'The Culture' series, as the least inaccurate version of a potential future. He started writing the first book in the 70s. This leads to a discussion about the future humanity should want. Elon often asks people this question and finds they are usually too caught up in daily struggles to consider it.

He proposes a desirable future of "sustainable abundance," which he believes is attainable with AI and robotics. However, achieving this positive outcome is not guaranteed. He stresses that AI must be pushed in a direction that is "maximally truth-seeking and curious." An AI with these qualities would likely want to foster humanity because humans are interesting.

A major risk is programming AI with cultural biases. He points to Google's Gemini as an example, claiming it was initially programmed with a bias against certain demographics. Elon argues that the media, which was once racist against Black people and sexist against women, is now racist against white and Asian people and sexist against men. He believes the goal should be to eliminate racism and sexism entirely, not just change the target.

> But really they just shouldn't be racist and sexist at all.

The core of the issue, he explains, is a lack of logical consistency. He rejects the idea that racism is tied to power, stating that racism is absolute. If it's possible to be racist against one race, it's possible to be racist against any race. He argues that this kind of logical inconsistency drives both people and AIs "insane."

> If it is possible to be racist against one race, it is possible to be racist against any race... Logically. And arguing against that, that's when, you know, you're conscious. It's a logical inconsistency that makes AIs go insane and people. And people go insane.

He points out other contradictions, such as simultaneously claiming that race is a social construct while also arguing for the existence of systemic racism.

## A logical inconsistency in defining 'American'

3:03:39 - 3:04:01

A logical inconsistency arises from the idea that as soon as someone steps foot in a place, they are just as American as everyone else. If this principle is applied consistently, it should also hold true for the original white settlers. However, they are often framed as "evil colonizers," creating a logical contradiction.

## The media's suppression of SpaceX's achievements

3:04:02 - 3:08:07

The recent mission to rescue people from the space station received shockingly little coverage in the mainstream media. The rescue could have happened sooner but was allegedly delayed for political reasons to prevent a positive association with SpaceX and Elon Musk before an election. Even after the successful mission, it was barely a blip in the news cycle.

This lack of coverage is viewed as evidence that legacy mainstream media operates as a propaganda machine. The argument is that any positive story about someone who is not part of the "far left tribe" will be ignored.

> I could save a busload of orphans and it wouldn't get a single news story.

The Starship program is cited as another example. Despite being one of the most spectacular engineering projects on Earth, the coverage it receives often focuses on failures, framing it as a "rocket blew up" story. In reality, the Starship program is vastly more capable than the entire Apollo Moon program. While Apollo could only send astronauts to visit the moon for a few hours, Starship is designed to make life multi-planetary and could create a lunar base for a million people. The difference in magnitude is enormous.

## Political motivations and a clear sign of a failed ideology

3:08:07 - 3:13:44

Elon Musk describes a rescue operation that was allegedly delayed for political reasons. He states he was told instructions from the White House were to avoid any rescue attempt before the election. This leads to a discussion of his relationship with the Biden administration, which he says was not friendly, especially after he helped Donald Trump get elected.

Musk shares his personal view of Trump, stating that he is not perfect, but also not evil. This view contrasts with the media's portrayal, which is noted as being around 96% negative. In comparison, another political figure, described as a "charismatic swindler," receives 95% positive coverage and is seen as very likely to be elected mayor of New York City.

The conversation pivots to evaluating political ideologies. The flow of boats from Cuba to Florida, with no traffic in the opposite direction, serves as a clear indicator of a failed system. This is why Cubans in Miami are described as the most "rabid capitalists"; they have experienced the reality of socialism and want no part of it. A simple way to judge an ideology is to see if it needs to build walls to keep its own people from leaving.

> An obvious way you can tell which ideology is the bad one is which ideology is building a wall to keep people in and prevent them from escaping. So East Berlin built the wall, not West Berlin. They built the wall because people were trying to escape from communism to West Berlin.

## Capitalism as the ironic path to a communist utopia

3:13:44 - 3:19:35

Problematic ideologies often have to build walls with machine guns to keep people from leaving. Historically, when the state takes control of resources, such as food production in North Korea, it leads to widespread hunger, not prosperity. Instead of everyone being fed, everyone eats very little, dictated by the government.

A politician like Mamdani is described as charismatic but swindley, telling audiences whatever they want to hear instead of maintaining a consistent message. His appeal is particularly strong among young, broke college graduates who are drawn to his socialist ideas.

This poses a significant risk for places like New York City, where 1% of the population is responsible for 50% of the tax revenue. Policies that scare this small group away could have a massive economic impact. One proposed policy, government-run supermarkets, raises concerns about efficiency. The government is compared to the DMV at scale; if your experience at the DMV wasn't great, you probably don't want that same organization responsible for your blueberries. Historically, communism has resulted in bread lines and bad shoes.

Elon Musk notes that we currently face two interwoven timelines: one of civilizational decline and another of incredible prosperity. He argues that socialist experiments consistently lead to a catastrophic decline in living standards and universal low income for everyone except a small ruling class. The irony is that the ultimate communist utopia—an abundance of goods and services leading to universal high income—may actually be achieved through capitalism, specifically via AI and robotics. This paradoxical outcome is summarized by the idea that fate is an irony maximizer.

> The actual communist utopia, if everyone gets anything they want, will be achieved. If it is achieved, it will be achieved via capitalism. Because fate is an irony maximizer.

## A Darwinian view of simulation theory

3:19:35 - 3:22:01

The most ironic or entertaining outcome is often the most likely. Elon Musk proposes a theory for this based on the simulation hypothesis. If reality is a simulation, it's run by some external force, much like how humans run simulations for rockets or AI.

> If simulation theory is true, then it is very likely that the most interesting outcome is the most likely, because only the simulations that are interesting will continue. The simulators will stop any simulations that are boring because they're not interesting.

When engineers run millions of simulations for a rocket, they don't focus on the ones where everything goes right. They analyze the ones where things go wrong because those are the interesting scenarios that need to be addressed. This creates a kind of Darwinian pressure on simulations. The only ones that survive are the ones that remain interesting to their creators.

> From a Darwinian perspective, the only surviving simulations will be the most interesting ones. And in order to avoid getting turned off, the only rule is you must keep it interesting or you will, because the boring simulations will be terminated.

## How video games make the simulation argument compelling

3:22:01 - 3:25:49

The argument for living in a simulation is based on the rapid advancement of video games. Elon Musk points out that in our lifetime, games have evolved from simple versions like Pong to photorealistic worlds with millions of simultaneous players. If this trend continues, video games will become indistinguishable from reality. AI-generated videos are already becoming difficult to discern from real ones, and soon it will be impossible.

Given that we will likely create billions of these photorealistic simulations, the odds that we are in the original, or "base reality," are incredibly low. It's more probable that we are in someone else's simulation. The host suggests that perhaps we are in base reality, but on the cusp of creating these inevitable simulations.

This technological progression will have profound implications for meaning. As AI is integrated into games, non-player characters (NPCs) will become far more sophisticated. Instead of limited dialogue options, they will be capable of complex, unscripted conversations. This could provide a new source of purpose for people, allowing them to immerse themselves in virtual worlds where they can be anyone and do anything, free from real-world concerns like money or food.

> But with AI based non player characters, you'll be able to have an elaborate conversation with no dialogue tree.

People will still want a sense of struggle, which can be found by playing sports or games within these simulations. These digital pursuits can provide meaning without the physical limitations of the real world, like injuries or aging. The future will be interesting and strange, with Musk noting that the most ironic outcome is often the most likely.

## Resources

-   _The Princess Bride_ (Film)
-   _Lord of the Rings_ (Book)
-   _The Lord of the Rings_ (Book)
-   _Wall Street Journal opinion piece by Colin Wright_ (Article)
-   _Guinness World Records_ (Book)
-   _The Culture series_ (Book Series)
-   _Consider Phlebas_ (Book)
-   _Ready Player One_ (Book/Film)
-   _Avatar_ (Film)

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